All Answers: Re: [pakgrid] Grey telephony traffic to Pakistan

Jamil sahib,

Thank you, I am surprised that in this environment such a Commission exist. Commissions are created but it appears nothing happens beyond to enforce such decisions.

Regards

Asif

From: Zahid Jamil <zahid@jamilandjamil.com>
To: "<pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "pakgrid@yahoogroups.com" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] Grey telephony traffic to Pakistan

Actually, Competition Commission of Pakistan has already issued an order:

http://www.cc.gov.pk/images/Downloads/mb_ptcl_final_amended_1.pdf

Best regards,

Zahid Jamil

Barrister-at-law

Jamil & Jamil

Barristers-at-law

219-221 Central Hotel Annexe

Merewether Road, Karachi. Pakistan

Cell: +923008238230

Tel: +92 21 5680760 / 5685276 / 5655025

Fax: +92 21 5655026

www.jamilandjamil.com

Notice / Disclaimer

This message contains confidential information and its contents are being communicated only for the intended recipients . If you are not the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake and delete it from your system. The contents above may contain/are the intellectual property of Jamil & Jamil, Barristers-at-Law, and constitute privileged information protected by attorney client privilege. The reproduction, publication, use, amendment, modification of any kind whatsoever of any part or parts (including photocopying or storing it in any medium by electronic means whether or not transiently or incidentally or some other use of this communication) without prior written permission and consent of Jamil & Jamil is prohibited.

Sent from my iPad

On 28 Mar 2013, at 01:26, "Asif Mufti" <anmufti@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thank you Aslam sahib. Too bad there is no organization here that can promote competition and get rid of anti-competitive practices here in Pakistan.

Because of these anti-competitive practices we have perhaps lost trillions of Ruppees over a decade if not more.

From: Aslam Hayat <aslamhayat@hotmail.com>
To: "pakgrid@yahoogroups.com" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:03 AM
Subject: RE: [pakgrid] Grey telephony traffic to Pakistan

Here is the link to FCC determination:

http://us-mg4.mail.yahoo.com/neo/

Regards,

Aslam

To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
From: zahid@jamilandjamil.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 03:04:27 +0000
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] Grey telephony traffic to Pakistan

Dear All,

FCC stopping payments considering the blaring anti-competitive issues arising from ICH is understandable. It would be good to get some links to the FCC decision.

As far as the FIA's honest officers seeking assistance to curb grey traffic, their intentions and efforts are regrettably marred by many FIA officers reportedly responsible for endemic bribery, corruption (monthly payments as protection money as well as solicitation of bribes for keeping 'haath halka' etc.) and the reprehensible practices of illegal detention, taking statements under duress and threats, harassing calls and visits to their families and even physical abuse. Basically all out 'ghunda' tactics. Trouble is that this has become ingrained in their culture and on the job training from their superiors leading to a vicious downward spiral.

If the behaviour of FIA had been different in the recent nationwide raids, searches, seizures and arrests that has severely impacted security, privacy, the outsourcing industry and development of innovation and human resource there may have been room to believe in the FIA's good intentions.

Conversely, the cases of real cybercrime go uninvestigated and the malaise of action by the FIA to assist industry suggests (possibly incorrectly) that the overreaching interest in grey traffic is motivated by some other interest(s).

Unfortunately, this recent flurry of reprehensible cases has created a trust deficit. It must now be FIA that by action and not words demonstrate these good intentions. At the moment there is no appetite all around for empty promises. They must put their money where their mouth is, as it were. Demonstrable change in actually combating cybercrime, not protect vested interests and change their culture of harassment and ghundism is awaited from their end. Hope for the sake of the nation this is possible and they will rise to the challenge.

May I suggest an industry-LEA (FIA) consultative group be formed which ensures that promises are kept (maybe something like but not identical to the CPLC). There the motivations and intentions of the honest officers may be given an opportunity to perform.

Best regards,

Zahid Jamil
Barrister-at-law
Jamil Jamil
Barristers-at-law
219-221 Central Hotel Annexe
Merewether Road, Karachi. Pakistan
Cell: +923008238230
Tel: +92 213 5680760 / 5685276 / 5655025
Fax: +92 213 5655026
www.jamilandjamil.com

Notice / Disclaimer
This message contains confidential information and its contents are being communicated only for the intended recipients . If you are not the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake and delete it from your system. The contents above may contain/are the intellectual property of Jamil Jamil, Barristers-at-Law, and constitute privileged information protected by attorney client privilege. The reproduction, publication, use, amendment, modification of any kind whatsoever of any part or parts (including photocopying or storing it in any medium by electronic means whether or not transiently or incidentally or some other use of this communication) without prior written permission and consent of Jamil Jamil is prohibited.

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From: Wahaj us Siraj/MGMT <wahaj@nayatel.com>

Sender: <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:41:29 +0500

To: <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: [pakgrid] Grey telephony traffic to Pakistan

Dear Qasim,

Actually, on legal front, we're already fighting battle against the ICH in superior courts and Competition Commission of Pakistan (CCP). Because we consider that formation of cartel of LDIs was against the spirit of telecom deregulation policy and has also hurt the overseas Pakistanis badly. Various court orders are available at ispak.pk (document library). It's hoped that battle would soon be concluded and truth would prevail. FCC has already ordered US operators to stop payments to Pakistani LDIs and that has brought shame and financial loss to the country.

Basically, the outgoing Government has achieved two foul objectives by implementing ICH. They have received huge kickbacks from the LDIs and by increasing the rates they have opened the flood of grey traffic to the country.

Let's hope that caretaker Government would reverse the decision.

Some young, energetic and honest officers in FIA have requested for help because they thought (and rightly so) it was their duty to stop grey traffic and that's why I have circulated the email.

Kind regards….Wahaj

From: Qasim Sheikh [mailto:qs358@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:16 AM
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Cc: wahaj@nayatel.com
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] Grey telephony traffic to Pakistan

Dear Wahaj,

I support your effort but chances of its success are limited, reason being that most likely the person calling me using grey traffic is my close friend or relative. By using grey traffic they are saving money. Why would I help government stop my dear ones from saving money. This is the simple case of high import duties leading to smuggling. The thing to do is to bring down these official rates. My dear ones use Skype. At least in this case I am a "law abiding" citizen. Or has PTA declared skype illegal as well.

With Regards
Qasim
pk.linkedin.com/pub/qasim-sheikh/0/250/712
+923008540838 (mob)

From: Wahaj us Siraj/MGMT <wahaj@nayatel.com>
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:48 AM
Subject: [pakgrid] Grey telephony traffic to Pakistan

Dear all,

Grey telephony is on drastically rise in Pakistan after Ministry of IT and
PTA implemented controversial International Clearing House (ICH) agreement,
under which call rates to Pakistan form overseas were drastically increased
from 01 September 2012.

If you receive a call from overseas and CLI on your cel phone is from a
local Pakistani number, it means that the call is coming from a grey
telephony route.

Cyber Crime Wing of FIA has requested for help in identifying such numbers
so that they can nab people involved in grey traffic.

If you receive a call from overseas and CLI on phone is local, kindly report
the number that appears on your CLI to amir.nazir@nr3c.gov.pk.

Kind regards....Wahaj