All Answers: [pakgrid] Re: Students as Customers

I am combining in my mail the replies that I received and discuss them accordingly. In the end I've also compiled some improvement suggestions:

1. Parents problem.
Its a fact that most of the students join school because their parents wanted to. They themselves dream for their child a good job rather than developing industry and product and the child takes it forward as a result we see no industry being established and we are producing jobless hunters.

2. Schools Issue not Higher Education.
First of all we need to learn what is education? Is it getting good grades? According to Wikipedia: "Education in its general sense is a form of learning in which knowledge, skills, and habits of a group of people are transferred from one generation to the next through teaching, training, research, or simply through self learning. Generally, it occurs through any experience that has a formative effect on the way one thinks, feels, or acts." The curriculum of any institutions has a dramatic impact on development of an individual. According to Wikipedia: "curriculum refers to the course of deeds and experiences through which children grow to become mature adults." Our curriculum's in schools and universities have everything except the practical approach to develop mature citizens and enginers. Citizens need to learn what are their basic rights, what is the role of trade associations, role of chamber of commerce, how to obtain a driving licence, how to walk or drive on street, how to register a company, how to produce a business plan, what are the legal issue in product design, what are the bylaws of PEC, etc.

3. Teachers Experience Issue:
Its fundamental to transfer the practical knowledge to students to groom them for the practical environment, and for that industrial experience is necessary. However, the one who has topped his education has more grasp over his concepts and will better apply it in industry. Moreover, the technology and experience requirement changes with time. Therefore, the teachers should be involved in working of development of project for economies, in this manner they will keep up themselves with the experience required. See improvement suggestions below for further details.

4. Government issue
We cant blame government is not supporting research. Even in United States, both the government and education is supported by the Industry and businesses. Thus businesses are the backbone of any economy.

Improvement Suggestions:
1. We should from day one get our students design some product so that by the end they get an idea of how and why engineering works to build the local economy.
2. The teachers should also lead as example by designing products for the society.
3. We should in corporate course like MIT in our engineering institutes like toy product design. the link is given here. http://web.mit.edu/2.00b/www/index.html.
4. Teachers should start thinking that they are developing future generations. If they are not thinking like this they are acting totally in the opposite direction, i.e. destroying the future generations. We should think that we have to produce students who can create livelihood for themselves.
5. Students themselves should realize that after completing the education, would they like to develop a product, do business or they would like to stamp papers, fixing a pipe leakages.
6. We should get more and more people involved in business in Pakistan to deliver lectures and teach subjects to spark an ignition in students to become successful future businessmen.
7. The students should maintain a record of investment already done in their education how much they need to do to recover it.
8. I also suggest every to read article on Wikipedia on education, to get an idea of the roles and purposes of primary, secondary and university education.

Inshallah these suggestions will be incorporated and we will see a significant change in our society's positive development through practical education

Regards
Sulaiman Dawod Barry

--- In pakgrid@yahoogroups.com, Midhat Ali <midhatali@...> wrote:
>
> 1. How will higher education fix our problems? I am trying to understand
> the path that leads from higher education to prosperity. The basic civic
> sense problem you mentioned can be fixed by much cheaper school education
> and not HE, in my opinion. As for the 445k graduates, we dont have enough
> economic activity to create jobs for them.
>
> 2. Another related idea that I want this forum to comment on, is the
> inflation in the job market in terms of qualification. Every year, the
> employers are raising the bar more and more for the jobs, requiring higher
> qualifications. at one time a BS grad could find a job as a network
> engineer (for example) with on-job training, but now they want MS and
> certifications for the hardware they run. Do we really need government and
> people spending money on skill development we dont need. I friend in a
> telecom vendor told me they have started hiring engineers instead of
> technicians for technician jobs, because they are willing to work on that.
> We regularly see Masters degree holders applying for government jobs in the
> lowest grades. I know a guy in a bank, with an MBA from a not-so-good
> brand, whose job is practically stamping account numbers on the chequebooks
> all day. The MBA training is not being used, but he had to aquire it
> because of the inflation in the job market. All these expensive
> qualifications ,acquired through a combination of public and private money
> ,are going to waste, and we need to do something about it.
>
> So my second question is can we fix this inflation in job market, and how?
>
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 6:28 AM, Saqib Ilyas <msaqib@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Welcome to the club!
> > As you've noticed, the problem is deeply rooted. Do we realize the
> > significance of anything that we don't earn for? My father paid the fees.
> > Most people's father also picks where they go for education, so it's all
> > going through the motions. Like how I go to bed at night and wash my face
> > in the morning.
> > But leave that alone, too, becaue to us Pakistanis, everything is a joke,
> > even if we earned it. A short trip out of the house and on to the street or
> > the road will testify in favor of this. People are walking in the middle of
> > the road, driving on the wrong side of Lahore Ring Road and other highways.
> > Children who can barely walk are riding motorbikes. It's a much bigger
> > problem.
> > You could raise awareness of those who came into your degree program
> > (445000 graduates every year throughout Pakistan, apropos
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Pakistan), but they constitute
> > what percentage of the population (187 million apropos
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Pakistan)? 0.23%. Working
> > with that, we need a lot of luck changing the country!
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Sulaiman <driving_seat@...>wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> After conducting some teaching sessions related to engineering at a
> >> renowned education institute in Pakistan, a thought came to me regarding
> >> our education and I would like to share with all Pakistanis giving a
> >> factual but not realized concept.
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Any customer pays cash to get the required services or to fulfill a need!
> >> We are certain about what we want when we pay against it, except for
> >> EDUCATION. For example, as customer of bread, you see a need of your hunger
> >> being satisfied. When we ask someone why your are paying for education, the
> >> most common answer is to become something (kuch bannay k liye). This is an
> >> alarming situation! Can you imagine yourself paying for something when you
> >> do not know what you want to gain? Such is the pattern of all society!
> >> Our society is lacking vision of what we want to become and where to find
> >> our required educational services! Due to which following issues hair
> >> raising issues are highlighted:
> >>
> >> 1. As an engineering teacher, when I asked a student why are you learning
> >> to make a drawing. The answer was "To get a good grade!" Then I again
> >> asked, AS AN ENGIINEER why are you learning to make a drawing? Only then
> >> there were some relevant answers. The problem is we take an admission in a
> >> "WELL KNOWN INSTITUTE" to fulfill our ego and to tell other relatives and
> >> friends that we are paying for BRAND. Secondly, our vision is then limited
> >> to good grade, when we don't find good teaching services, what do we do? Do
> >> we demand that our educational needs are not being satisfied, i.e. we are
> >> not a happy customer? Do we leave the institute to get these services in a
> >> "LOW PROFILE INSTITUTE", where your educational needs will be BETTER
> >> satisfied? NOT AT ALL! WE GO FOR TUITION! No joking, this I experienced at
> >> University Level!
> >>
> >> 2. Then I also asked what is the function of an engineer? A response was
> >> to repair a fault in a plant. I was not surprised to hear because our
> >> engineers are not designing product in Pakistan. This clearly shows that we
> >> do not know why we are spending huge amounts in EDUCATION. Moreover, the
> >> module of engineering design is not present in most of our engineering
> >> syllabi.
> >>
> >> 3. Not only this, we pay as customers for our education and rather we
> >> evaluate them we are being evaluated! Students are the most enslaved pupils
> >> here because they cannot say anything against a teacher or institute even
> >> if he/she is not being provided good teaching service for what he is
> >> paying. Because I do anything, my grade will be damaged! Is that what we
> >> pay for?
> >>
> >> 4. Let me explain our grading system through an example. If you are
> >> running a factory and you bought a machine to give you required pieces of
> >> production per day. After purchasing you found that your new machine is not
> >> providing you your targeted number of pieces as falsely claimed, you lose
> >> your interest in it and search for a better alternative machine that
> >> satisfies your production quantity. Similarly, when the student is not
> >> getting for what he wants, his motivation and performance will be low and
> >> as a result he gets a BAD GRADE!
> >>
> >> As engineers we must get out of thinking to get a job in a multinational
> >> and repairing their faults but start real engineering products that fulfill
> >> the need of the society. Especially, I request all mechanical engineers
> >> because they are the backbone of product design, although few are being
> >> produced. There are numerous simple problems to convert into opportunities
> >> solve: there are no juicers or blenders being designed, no generators being
> >> designed, no Computers and its accessories being designed. The list goes on
> >> and on and on... The thing I want to address here is that the market is
> >> huge. It's only the people who have to produce.
> >>
> >> One thing that may also common to hear, who will compete with CHINA
> >> (CHEEN se compete kon karay ga!) You must realize that in order to ship a
> >> product to a market it requires transportation which adds to the cost
> >> price. If someone is not producing it locally then of course people of that
> >> locality will purchase the product at a higher price from abroad! Realizing
> >> of lack of interest in this regard, the move their factories towards mass
> >> production because the higher the volume of production, the lower the cost
> >> per unit labour. That's why the entire world is moving towards automation.
> >>
> >> Students (Especially engineering students) must realize that they are
> >> CUSTOMERS! Your payment to today is an investment for tomorrow! One invests
> >> to get more return and we must think from this angle, i.e. we are paying to
> >> achieve our future goals and in return earn more. We must know what they
> >> want to achieve (in case of engineering, we must know what we want to
> >> design) and to search and get the required service available to fulfill our
> >> aims. Setting your aim is the most important criteria before you get your
> >> education because this will be important to fulfill your dream. If you are
> >> not satisfied with the performance of an institute tell them politely. Even
> >> if not improved, you have all the right to get it from some other place and
> >> leave that place.
> >>
> >> The teachers must also realize that they are the representatives of that
> >> organization and they are working to provide the quality of service that
> >> the customer (here students) are expecting and help them to fulfill their
> >> dreams.
> >> We need to work out on our visions on urgent basis! Inshallah my thought
> >> sharing will improve our goal settings and basic but paramount educational
> >> services!
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Sulaiman Dawood Barry
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Muhammad Saqib Ilyas
> > PhD Student, Computer Science and Engineering
> > Lahore University of Management Sciences
> >
> >
> >
>