Monday, 9 April 2012

[bs-telecom] Digest Number 1708

Messages In This Digest (12 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa

Posted by: "Osmaan ahmad" usman.naseem.87@hotmail.com   usman.naseem87

Sun Apr 8, 2012 12:32 am (PDT)




Dear Usman,
Please find below answers of your all questions. I am also working in KSA with Labor Profession for more than 1 year all my answers are based on my personal experience.
If you need any suggestion you can send email without any hesitation. Good Luck
Usman

To: bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com
From: usmangul85@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 13:31:24 -0700
Subject: [bs-telecom] Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa

Dear Members,
I need some information regarding the KSA azad Visa. Your kind and accurate replies will be highly appreciated. and kindly ans following questions:
1. Is azad visa with status of Engineer is must for me?
Ans : No, You can come on any visa ( labor or any other. Engineer is not Mandatory), Moreover, You can change your profession any time you come to KSA so dont wry about profession just come and change it
2. What problems will I face if I arrive to KSA on technician visa?Ans: If you come on Technician visa then only problem u can face is going to other Gulf Countries u need to have visa but now a days i heard they are giving on every profession but with engineer u get it on Arrival. Moreover, you can call you family also on technician visa. ( which is a major concern of people coming from Pakistan to KSA)
3. Which city is
good to try my luck? ( I am an Electrical Engineer in communication, with experience of BSS, MW, M&E, Administration, CCNA and ISO certified)Ans : If you have Luck you do not need to try it you will get it sitting on any city but i prefer Riyadh , Jeddah , Damam/Khobar .
4. Any body knows any genuine overseas promoter, kindly tell me his name, address and contact numAns: What do u mean by Promoter?what kind of information you are expecting from this question5. What is the cost of azad professional visa of an Engineer?Ans: Cost varies from city to city and agent to agent.....not any exact amount. Normal range is 20k SAR for Engineer in Riyadh and less in other cities.
6. What
documents are needed to be attested and from where?Ans: For Labor visa u dnt need to attest you educational documents. But you need to attest all for Engineer visa. let me know when u ll get profession i ll tel u details
7. any body have list of Saudi Telecom companies? If yes kindly share itAns: List :) Bro , you need to come here. once u reach u ll get many.........dnt wry8. Will I be able to move in whole KSA once I get Iqama?Ans: Yes you can move to whole KSA once u have Iqama but working in other cities on azad visa requires permission from your kafeeel.
9. I have to pay monthly fee to kafeel? or it depends upon kafeel?
Ans: Depend on your kafeel
10. My agent is unable to get azad visa of engr for me, now what should I do now?
Ans: :) Agr ye question pehlay parh laita to upar itni details na btata :)Just get watever u r getting and change it after coming here. Even the cost of changing and everything will not be paid by You :)

11. What is the living cost in KSA? will I be able to save some for my family?Ans : Cost depends on You. Even if you live very lavish kind of life style even then you can save alot of Money .....and i mean it alot of Money.
12. What will be the avg. starting salary in KSA?
Ans Depends on Ur exp and Company you are working for....... 5-7K SAR for Subcon , 8-12K SAR for Vendor and Higher for Higher posts....
13. Last quest. I have heard abt removing the kafeel in buying the status, Is it correct or some
rumour? Ans : Removing the kafeel in buying status? i did not understand your question dear.
HOPE YOU ALL QUERIES WILL BE RESOLVED NOW BUT IF YOU STILL HAVE ANYOTHER THEN SEND IT.

Regards,Engr. Usman Gul,+92-312-9119333 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +92-312-9119333 end_of_the_skype_highlightingusmangul85@yahoo.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
1b.

Re: Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa

Posted by: "Umair Arif" umair.fastian@yahoo.com   umair.fastian

Sun Apr 8, 2012 6:31 am (PDT)



If You have experience you can go for visit visa. There are engineers who are working on Visit Visa.

________________________________
From: Usman Gul <usmangul85@yahoo.com>
To: "bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com" <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2012 11:31 PM
Subject: [bs-telecom] Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa


 
Dear Members,

I need some information regarding the KSA azad Visa. Your kind and accurate replies will be highly appreciated.
 and kindly ans following questions:

1. Is azad visa with status of Engineer is must for me?

2. What problems will I face if I arrive to KSA on technician visa?

3. Which city is good to try my luck? ( I am an Electrical Engineer in communication, with experience of BSS, MW, M&E, Administration, CCNA and ISO certified)

4. Any body knows any genuine overseas promoter, kindly tell me his name, address and contact num

5. What is the cost of azad professional visa of an Engineer?

6. What documents are needed to be attested and from where?

7. any body have list of Saudi Telecom companies? If yes kindly share it

8. Will I be able to move in whole KSA once I get Iqama?

9. I have to pay monthly fee to kafeel? or it depends upon kafeel?

10. My agent is unable to get azad visa of engr for me, now what should I do now?

11. What is the living cost in KSA? will I be able to save some for my family?

12. What will be the avg. starting salary in KSA?

13. Last quest. I have heard abt removing the kafeel in buying the status, Is it correct or some rumour? 

Regards,
Engr. Usman Gul,
+92-312-9119333
usmangul85@yahoo.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
1c.

Re: Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa

Posted by: "Umair Arif" umair.fastian@yahoo.com   umair.fastian

Sun Apr 8, 2012 6:31 am (PDT)



Dear Usman,

In my opinion Azad visa will be costly. Suppose that if you come on azad Visa then then Iqama will not be transferrable for 1 year. You will have pay more for transfer of Iqama. You should obtain Visit Visa and try luck.

________________________________
From: Osmaan ahmad <usman.naseem.87@hotmail.com>
To: bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com; usmangul85@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: [bs-telecom] Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa


 
Dear Usman,

Please find below answers of your all questions. 
I am also working in KSA with Labor Profession for more than 1 year all my answers are based on my personal experience.

 
If you need any suggestion you can send email without any hesitation. Good Luck

Usman

________________________________
To: bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com
From: usmangul85@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 13:31:24 -0700
Subject: [bs-telecom] Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa

 

Dear Members,

I need some information regarding the KSA azad Visa. Your kind and accurate replies will be highly appreciated.
 and kindly ans following questions:

1. Is azad visa with status of Engineer is must for me?

Ans : No, You can come on any visa ( labor or any other. Engineer is not Mandatory), Moreover, You can change your profession any time you come to KSA so dont wry about profession just come and change it 

2. What problems will I face if I arrive to KSA on technician visa?
Ans: If you come on Technician visa then only problem u can face is going to other Gulf Countries u need to have visa but now a days i heard they are giving on every profession but with engineer u get it on Arrival. Moreover, you can call you family also on technician visa. ( which is a major concern of people coming from Pakistan to KSA)

3. Which city is good to try my luck? ( I am an Electrical Engineer in communication, with experience of BSS, MW, M&E, Administration, CCNA and ISO certified)
Ans : If you have Luck you do not need to try it you will get it sitting on any city but i prefer Riyadh , Jeddah , Damam/Khobar .

4. Any body knows any genuine overseas promoter, kindly tell me his name, address and contact num
Ans: What do u mean by Promoter?what kind of information you are expecting from this question
5. What is the cost of azad professional visa of an Engineer?
Ans: Cost varies from city to city and agent to agent.....not any exact amount. Normal range is 20k SAR for Engineer in Riyadh and less in other  cities. 

6. What documents are needed to be attested and from where?
Ans: For Labor visa u dnt need to attest you educational documents. But you need to attest all for Engineer visa. let me know when u ll get profession i ll tel u details

7. any body have list of Saudi Telecom companies? If yes kindly share it
Ans: List :) Bro , you need to come here. once u reach u ll get many.........dnt wry
8. Will I be able to move in whole KSA once I get Iqama?
Ans: Yes you can move to whole KSA once u have Iqama but working in other cities on azad visa requires permission from your kafeeel.

9. I have to pay monthly fee to kafeel? or it depends upon kafeel?

Ans:  Depend on your kafeel

10. My agent is unable to get azad visa of engr for me, now what should I do now?

Ans: :) Agr ye question pehlay parh laita to upar itni details na btata :)
Just get watever u r getting and change it after coming here. Even the cost of changing and everything will not be paid by You :)

11. What is the living cost in KSA? will I be able to save some for my family?
Ans :  Cost depends on You. Even if you live very lavish kind of life style even then you can save alot of Money .....and i mean it alot of Money.

12. What will be the avg. starting salary in KSA?

Ans Depends on Ur exp and Company you are working for....... 5-7K SAR for Subcon , 8-12K SAR for Vendor and Higher for Higher posts....

13. Last quest. I have heard abt removing the kafeel in buying the status, Is it correct or some rumour? 
Ans : Removing the kafeel in buying status? i did not understand your question dear. 

HOPE YOU ALL QUERIES WILL BE RESOLVED NOW BUT IF YOU STILL HAVE ANYOTHER THEN SEND IT. 

Regards,
Engr. Usman Gul,
+92-312-9119333begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +92-312-9119333      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
usmangul85@yahoo.com

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Messages in this topic (5)
1d.

Re: Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa

Posted by: "Osmaan ahmad" usman.naseem.87@hotmail.com   usman.naseem87

Sun Apr 8, 2012 1:40 pm (PDT)




Dear Umair,
Transfer of Iqama Supposed to be paid by the new sponsor (Employer) not you!!!And visit visa has less chances companies always ask for person who have iqama not visit visa.
Persons who are working here on visit visa are those who are being hired from other countries directly and they have job already.
but by geting visit and then searching for my job...sorry my friend it will not work .....
usman

To: bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com
From: umair.fastian@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 06:27:38 -0700
Subject: Re: [bs-telecom] Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa




























Dear Usman,
In my opinion Azad visa will be costly. Suppose that if you come on azad Visa then then Iqama will not be transferrable for 1 year. You will have pay more for transfer of Iqama. You should obtain Visit Visa and try luck.
From: Osmaan ahmad <usman.naseem.87@hotmail.com>
To: bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com; usmangul85@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, April
8, 2012 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: [bs-telecom] Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa


























Dear Usman,
Please find below answers of your all questions. I am also working in KSA with Labor Profession for more than 1 year all my answers are based on my personal experience.
If you need any suggestion you can send email without any hesitation. Good Luck
Usman

To: bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com
From: usmangul85@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 13:31:24 -0700
Subject: [bs-telecom] Query || Information regarding KSA azad Visa





























Dear Members,
I need some information regarding the KSA azad Visa. Your kind and accurate replies will be highly appreciated. and kindly ans following questions:
1. Is azad visa with status of Engineer is must for me?
Ans : No, You can come on any visa ( labor or
any other. Engineer is not Mandatory), Moreover, You can change your profession any time you come to KSA so dont wry about profession just come and change it
2. What problems will I face if I arrive to KSA on technician visa?Ans: If you come on Technician visa then only problem u can face is going to other Gulf Countries u need to have visa but now a days i heard they are giving on every profession but with engineer u get it on Arrival. Moreover, you can call you family also on technician visa. ( which is a major concern of people coming from Pakistan to KSA)
3. Which city is
good to try my luck? ( I am an Electrical Engineer in communication, with experience of BSS, MW, M&E, Administration, CCNA and ISO certified)Ans : If you have Luck you do not need to try it you will get it sitting on any city but i prefer Riyadh , Jeddah , Damam/Khobar .
4. Any body knows any genuine overseas promoter, kindly tell me his name, address and contact numAns: What do u mean by Promoter?what kind of information you are expecting from this question5. What is the cost of azad professional visa of an Engineer?Ans: Cost varies from city to city and agent to agent.....not any
exact amount. Normal range is 20k SAR for Engineer in Riyadh and less in other cities.
6. What
documents are needed to be attested and from where?Ans: For Labor visa u dnt need to attest you educational documents. But you need to attest all for Engineer visa. let me know when u ll get profession i ll tel u details
7. any body have list of Saudi Telecom companies? If yes kindly share itAns: List :) Bro , you need to come here. once u reach u ll get many.........dnt wry8. Will I be able to move in whole KSA once I get Iqama?Ans: Yes you can move to whole KSA once u have Iqama but working in other cities on azad visa requires permission from your kafeeel.
9. I have to pay monthly fee to kafeel? or it depends upon kafeel?
Ans: Depend on your kafeel
10. My agent is unable to get azad visa of engr for me, now what should I do now?
Ans: :) Agr ye question pehlay parh laita to upar itni details na btata :)Just get watever u r getting and change it after coming here. Even the cost of changing and everything will not be paid by You :)

11. What is the living cost in KSA? will I be able to save some for my family?Ans : Cost depends on You. Even if you live very lavish kind of life style even then you can save alot of Money .....and i mean it alot of Money.
12. What will be the avg. starting salary in KSA?
Ans Depends on Ur exp and Company you are working for....... 5-7K SAR for Subcon ,
8-12K SAR for Vendor and Higher for Higher posts....
13. Last quest. I have heard abt removing the kafeel in buying the status, Is it correct or some
rumour? Ans : Removing the kafeel in buying status? i did not understand your question dear.
HOPE YOU ALL QUERIES WILL BE RESOLVED NOW BUT IF YOU STILL HAVE ANYOTHER THEN SEND IT.


Regards,Engr. Usman Gul,+92-312-9119333 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +92-312-9119333 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +92-312-9119333 end_of_the_skype_highlightingusmangul85@yahoo.com












































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Messages in this topic (5)
2a.

Re: Query || Linux based DHCP system configuration

Posted by: "Uk Engr" uk.engr@yahoo.com   uk.engr

Sun Apr 8, 2012 6:30 am (PDT)



Wsalam! Dear all, thanks for your helps. Actually my dhcp server is working perfectly. But I want to make choice for cleints. I mean clients should have choice to take dynamic ip from my server or PTCL router. I mean to say both dhcp server (my and PTCL) shud active but client can make choice. For this what shud I do at client side?  

JazakAllah Khair!

________________________________
From: M AYZED MIRZA <ayzed_mirza@yahoo.com>
To: "bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com" <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: [bs-telecom] Query || Linux based DHCP system configuration


 
AOA
dear please check the configurations of PTCL router.
u have to disable DHCP server from there

in that way u would b able to assign IPs from ur Linux Server.
 

Regards,
Muhammad Ayzed Mirza
0322-2220774

________________________________
From: Uk Engr <uk.engr@yahoo.com>
To: "bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com" <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>; ofdm matlab <ofdmandmatlab@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 7 April 2012 3:34 PM
Subject: [bs-telecom] Query || Linux based DHCP system configuration


 
Salaam! I have made DHCP server on my local network which is served by PTCL's router for internet. Now clients are directly taking Dynamic IPs from PTCL router not from my DHCP server. My system is linux based. Can any one help? How should I configure clients so that they should take IPs from my DHCP server not from PTCL router?

Thanks,

 

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Messages in this topic (6)
2b.

Re: Query || Linux based DHCP system configuration

Posted by: "Jaffar Husaain" dk.stinger@gmail.com   jaffar.hussain

Sun Apr 8, 2012 1:41 pm (PDT)



I don't think something like that is possible without installing some new
software on all your clients. If you have a gateway server (your linux
machine) then I would recommend that you do the following:
1. Disable DHCP on your router
2. Configure static IP connection between your router and linux server.
3. Put a lan switch/AP between your linux server and clients
4. Enable DHCP on your server.
5. If you want dual layers of security, then you should setup masq at your
linux machine as well.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Uk Engr <uk.engr@yahoo.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Wsalam! Dear all, thanks for your helps. Actually my dhcp server is
> working perfectly. But I want to make choice for cleints. I mean clients
> should have choice to take dynamic ip from my server or PTCL router. I mean
> to say both dhcp server (my and PTCL) shud active but client can make
> choice. For this what shud I do at client side?
>
> JazakAllah Khair!
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* M AYZED MIRZA <ayzed_mirza@yahoo.com>
> *To:* "bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com" <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 8, 2012 2:17 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [bs-telecom] Query || Linux based DHCP system configuration
>
>
> AOA
> dear please check the configurations of PTCL router.
> u have to disable DHCP server from there
> in that way u would b able to assign IPs from ur Linux Server.
>
>
> Regards,
> Muhammad Ayzed Mirza
> 0322-2220774
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Uk Engr <uk.engr@yahoo.com>
> *To:* "bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com" <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>; ofdm
> matlab <ofdmandmatlab@yahoogroups.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, 7 April 2012 3:34 PM
> *Subject:* [bs-telecom] Query || Linux based DHCP system configuration
>
>
> Salaam! I have made DHCP server on my local network which is served by
> PTCL's router for internet. Now clients are directly taking Dynamic IPs
> from PTCL router not from my DHCP server. My system is linux based. Can any
> one help? How should I configure clients so that they should take IPs from
> my DHCP server not from PTCL router?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Messages in this topic (6)
3a.

Re: Query || What is Age relaxation in Govt jobs?

Posted by: "Uk Engr" uk.engr@yahoo.com   uk.engr

Sun Apr 8, 2012 6:31 am (PDT)



Yes, but as far as I know there is some process of age relaxation before applying. Then we have to attach age relaxation's papers with our documents. But I don't know about process of age relaxation. You should concern to any govt's employee. 

________________________________
From: Imran <imran728@yahoo.com>
To: bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 7, 2012 12:36 AM
Subject: [bs-telecom] Query || What is Age relaxation in Govt jobs?


 
Dear All,

In mostly government jobs they say that five yrs age relaxation in upper age limit is allowed and the required age is 21-25.... Does it mean that a person with 30 yr of age can also apply???

What is meaning of 5 yrs upper age relaxation?

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Messages in this topic (2)
4a.

Job || Alcatel BSS / Wimax Engineer || Pakistan

Posted by: "Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo" wsa042@yahoo.com   wsa042

Sun Apr 8, 2012 6:31 am (PDT)



 Dear All

Pakistan base company required Alcatel BSS+Wimax enginner

please share resume on wsa042@gmail.com

Warm Wishes
Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo
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Messages in this topic (4)
4b.

Re: Job || Alcatel BSS / Wimax Engineer || Pakistan

Posted by: "Waqas Naeem" waqas.naeem88@yahoo.com   waqas.naeem88

Sun Apr 8, 2012 1:41 pm (PDT)



Dear Shahzad Sb,

How much experience is required for this job and can you kindly specify the city location if possible.

Regards,

Waqas

________________________________
From: Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo <wsa042@yahoo.com>
To: BS TELEcom <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>; "zumbeel@yahoogroups.com" <zumbeel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 3:00 PM
Subject: [bs-telecom] Job || Alcatel BSS / Wimax Engineer || Pakistan


 
 Dear All
 
Pakistan base company required Alcatel BSS+Wimax enginner
 
please share resume on wsa042@gmail.com
 
 
 
Warm Wishes
Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo
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Messages in this topic (4)
4c.

Re: Job || Alcatel BSS / Wimax Engineer || Pakistan

Posted by: "Ozair Khan" ozairalikhan@yahoo.com   ozairalikhan

Sun Apr 8, 2012 1:41 pm (PDT)



Hi,

Are you only looking for someone in Karachi?

Best,

Ozair

________________________________
From: Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo <wsa042@yahoo.com>
To: BS TELEcom <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>; "zumbeel@yahoogroups.com" <zumbeel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2012, 15:00
Subject: [bs-telecom] Job || Alcatel BSS / Wimax Engineer || Pakistan


 
 Dear All
 
Pakistan base company required Alcatel BSS+Wimax enginner
 
please share resume on wsa042@gmail.com
 
 
 
Warm Wishes
Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo
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Messages in this topic (4)
4d.

Re: Job || Alcatel BSS / Wimax Engineer || Pakistan

Posted by: "Mohammad Ahmed" engr.ahmed84@yahoo.com   engr.ahmed84

Sun Apr 8, 2012 1:41 pm (PDT)



Kindly give us some more information. For which region? How much experience do they need? Is there any vacancy for fresh graduates? It will be better if you could share the name of company also.

Regards
Mohammad Ahmed

________________________________
From: Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo <wsa042@yahoo.com>
To: BS TELEcom <bs-telecom@yahoogroups.com>; "zumbeel@yahoogroups.com" <zumbeel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 8, 2012 2:00 PM
Subject: [bs-telecom] Job || Alcatel BSS / Wimax Engineer || Pakistan


 
 Dear All
 
Pakistan base company required Alcatel BSS+Wimax enginner
 
please share resume on wsa042@gmail.com
 
 
 
Warm Wishes
Haji Shahzad Ali Shargo
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Messages in this topic (4)
5.

Job || Multiple Software Roles || Mentor Graphics Lahore

Posted by: "Jahan Zaib Saleem" zaib29@gmail.com   zaib616

Sun Apr 8, 2012 10:03 am (PDT)



*Job || Multiple Software Roles || Mentor Graphics Lahore*

http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/jobSearch.jsp

*Posting Title<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&act=sort&sortColumn=0>[image:
Ascending]<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&act=sort&sortColumn=0>
* *Job Category<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&act=sort&sortColumn=1>
* *Work Location<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/searchResults.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&act=sort&sortColumn=2>
* *GNU Toolchain Engineer -
643<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&rid=643>
**R&D/Software Engineering**PK - Lahore**HPC Software Engineer -
652<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&rid=652>
**R&D/Software Engineering**PK - Lahore**Senior Technical Lead -
638<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&rid=638>
**Software Quality Assurance**PK - Lahore**Software Development Engineer -
621<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&rid=621>
**R&D/Software Engineering**PK - Lahore**Sr. HPC Software Engineer -
653<http://tbe.taleo.net/NA8/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=MENTOR&cws=8&rid=653>
**R&D/Software Engineering**PK - Lahore*

--

Best Regards,,,

*Jahan Zaib Saleem*

http://telecom-life.blogspot.com/
http://zumbeel.net/blog/whatithink/
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