This booklet does not contain details about the CS associate degree program. I have seen it somewhere but could not locate it. Will try to find it out and share it with you.
Anyway, the attached ad outlines these programs in general. There is another document that gives the framework for this kind of degrees ( http://www.hec.gov.pk/InsideHEC/Divisions/AECA/CurriculumRevision/Documents/TemplateAD.pdf ). I think what we need to do now is ask HEC to remove bullet point numbers 4 and 5 from this ad. This will allow students with weak academic performance to exit with at least something that they can use.
best regards
Fakhar
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Qasim Sheikh <qs358@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please look at the attached file. Is this the two year degree program designed by HEC? Are there any other documents from HEC that can be useful in comparing HEC's 2 year degree program and what I have suggested in my previous e-mail?
To: Qasim Sheikh <qs358@yahoo.com>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 3:29 PM
Cc: "pakgrid@yahoogroups.com" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>; Abdul Qadir <aqadir@jinnah.edu.pk>; "asadiqr@gmail.com" <asadiqr@gmail.com>; Sohaib Khan <sohaib@lums.edu.pk>; "aftab.maroof@nu.edu.pk" <aftab.maroof@nu.edu.pk>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [pakgrid] Time to redesign 4 year BS program
Dear Qasim:
I believe the associate degree has been designed exactly with the same idea. The institutes offering both these degrees are allowing graduates with associate degree to come back and resume their studies to complete the 4 year BS(hons) degree as the two are "seamlessly" integrated. Unfortunately most universities are offering only one 4 year degree and hence moving from one place to another after completing the associate degree is not possible in general.
Best regards,
FakharOn Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Qasim Sheikh <qs358@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Fakhar,There is a subtle but important difference between a two year program and what I am proposing. In my suggested program there is a seamless integration and transition between the first 2 year and 2nd 2 year programs. If the two programs are not integrated then there is unfortunately following social stigma attached with two year program: "Students entering 2 year program are considered not good enough or rich enough to enter a 4 year program". If the two programs are integrated and admission to the two programs is same then we get rid of this stigma and students can choose to continue for 4 years or take time off after two years for several reasons. These reasons could be financial, social, disenchantment with the discipline and wanting to switch to something else, desire to experience industrial environment and so on.There are other benefits of this integrated 2 phase program. Financial aid to a large number of needy students can be given for first two years and then for next two years they can be asked to work and pay, or save money by working for a year or two and then come back to finish 4 year degree. Add to this the ability to take courses online, students who take time off after first 2 year phase can while working take courses from MOOC (with credit) for a fee of say 5000 Rs. per course and come back to school to just complete remaining requirements.As I read following articles, this split program makes a ton of sense:
From: Fakhar Lodhi <fakhar.lodhi@gmail.com>
To: Aftab Maroof <aftab.maroof@nu.edu.pk>
Cc: Qasim Sheikh <qs358@yahoo.com>; pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 12:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [pakgrid] Time to redesign 4 year BS program
I think HEC's new associate degree in CS is very similar to the first two year program outlined by Dr Qasim. Some institutes have already started to offer this program.On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Aftab Maroof <aftab.maroof@nu.edu.pk> wrote:
Dear AllI agree with Dr Qasim proposal of two layer formal BS degree program for Computer science with addition of Operating system as the 10th course out of the 20 in the 1st 2-year part of the program. The 1st 2-year part could be considered/termed as the "foundation" of the program.Dr Aftab MaroofOn Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Qasim Sheikh <qs358@yahoo.com> wrote:
Under Dr. Ata Ur Rehman's vision and HEC guidance universities in Pakistan to a large extent have moved to a 4 year BS program that is:1. 10 years of high school (matriculation), two years of college (Intermediate), 4 years of university undergraduate program (B.S) and then 4 years of Ph. D.Our program used to be:2. 10 years of high school (matriculation), two years of college (Intermediate), 2 years of college (B. Sc.), 2 years of university graduate program (M.Sc.), 2 years of university graduate program (M.Phil) and then 2 to 4 years of Ph. D.Both programs have their strengths and weaknesses. Looking at our socio-economic realities we need to readjust program 1 that is to a large extent a poorly optimized copy of US university program.I would recommend that we partition our current 4-year undergraduate program into two 2-year programs with a nationally recognized degree at the end of each 2-year program.A student gets admission (just like now) in a 4-year B.S program. In the first two years we teach enough skills that the student can go to industry and be productive. At the end of these two year students gets a diploma or a degree or what ever we call it that is recognized nationally. Students who leave after two year can comeback within a reasonable time and continue with the 2nd 2-year program and get equivalent of current 4-year B.S.
Students who want to finish 4-year program in one go are welcome to do so. Students who want to change university after first 2-year program should have the freedom to do so.For example for computer science we need a few minor changes in our current 4 year program to design the program outlined above.In 1st two years we should make sure that CS student knows programming, Intro to Object Oriented programming, Data Structures, Visual programming, Databases, Discrete Math, Linear Algebra, Probability and correct writing in English. In two years we teach 20 semester courses. I have listed 9 here. Other 11 can be used to give knowledge about self, society, economics, literature etc.
In the second 2-year program we can fill rest of the courses that are part of the 4 year BS curriculum at present.I am not sure if this partitioning is possible in Mathematics, Physics, Biology, Chemical Engineering etc.Actually US program IS closer to the second program I have outlined. I think community colleges in US give first two years and I think University of California system (which includes Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UCSF and others) is obligated to give admission to students who do reasonably well in a two year community colleges in California. I do not know exact details.While copying the US program, HEC management forgot this crucial component of the US system. Of late HEC has tried half heartedly to introduce a two year program. We need a very serious effort in this direction.--Dr. Aftab Ahmad Maroof | Director | FAST-NU | Faisalabad Campus
L: +92 41 8815772 |M: +92 300 8542043 |F: +92 41 8815771 |e: aftab.maroof@nu.edu.pk
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