Sorry. I misspelled the name. It is Wahaj.
Only weeks ago, there was a furore over the PTA's list of obscene words that it wanted to chop off. This act was to 'purify' the dirty stream of sms. Then there was this notification that the country's VIPs would not be satirised. Why not? Are they from outer space? Satire is an established way of pointing out the follies of the fallible. Ban it and you have Zia ul Haq's dream asking for 'positive' criticism. In other words, no criticism please. Just praise.
The latest demented mutant is the ICT Ministry which has sought proposals from organisations that can get a National Filtering & Blocking System into motion. This project asks for a proposal for technology that can 'review' 50 million website links in less than a second! People who know such things compare it with China's 'great firewall.' Once operational in Pakistan it will have serious economic and intellectual implications that will undermine Internet freedom and attack our fundamental rights.
The government of Pakistan (GOP)'s bugbears are well known to us. What new bee has got into its tattered bonnet this time? Why are they doing this idiotic exercise, instead of devoting their time, money and energy solving soul-crushing problems of the people?
It's the same old desire – control, control, control. If it's not our much ravished 'security' it's our threatened morality. The folks in Islamabad, present and previous, have milked this cow dry! The GOP wishes to install URL blocking and filtering system to filter out 'objectionable' content. The term hasn't been defined – which is disturbing because anyone can interpret it as they like. This is an indirect referral to pornographic and blasphemous content – as the rulers see it. Like 'objectionable,' 'national security' is not defined. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Who knows? This deliberate vagueness means that the 'system' is prone to rampant abuse and manipulation.
The latest demented mutant is the ICT Ministry which has sought proposals from organisations that can get a National Filtering & Blocking System into motion. This project asks for a proposal for technology that can 'review' 50 million website links in less than a second! People who know such things compare it with China's 'great firewall.' Once operational in Pakistan it will have serious economic and intellectual implications that will undermine Internet freedom and attack our fundamental rights.
The government of Pakistan (GOP)'s bugbears are well known to us. What new bee has got into its tattered bonnet this time? Why are they doing this idiotic exercise, instead of devoting their time, money and energy solving soul-crushing problems of the people?
It's the same old desire – control, control, control. If it's not our much ravished 'security' it's our threatened morality. The folks in Islamabad, present and previous, have milked this cow dry! The GOP wishes to install URL blocking and filtering system to filter out 'objectionable' content. The term hasn't been defined – which is disturbing because anyone can interpret it as they like. This is an indirect referral to pornographic and blasphemous content – as the rulers see it. Like 'objectionable,' 'national security' is not defined. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Who knows? This deliberate vagueness means that the 'system' is prone to rampant abuse and manipulation.
-Shiraz
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Shiraz Bashir <shirazbashir@gmail.com> wrote:
Wajaj Sahib,It is so heartening to see that you are handling it in a calm manner. I have very high hopes and expectation from this group. I had long chat with Tariq sahib. Both of you only prove that we can achieve a LOT!But, I disagree with this project.+1 to Imran.During Musharaf's martial law, one of my friend was in NTC. He was approached by military officers to take control of NTC! Now this officer has very strong ties in military and police. But even then he could not protest! Orders hayn...Even now Intel can tap your phones without warrants..What if US asks govt to monitor or heck they just use it without permission ? What we are going to do ?Imran's points are right on. Lets do a full fledge education to teach parents how to use technology to block whatever content they feel is harmful. I grew up playing video games and I am not a mass murderer.So my kid will play video games. But I monitor which games he plays on iPhone, xbox or PC.Same goes for religion. I take him to Sunday School and spend 4 hours to ensure he is not taught some Al Qaeda stuff!When I came to US, my father wrote me a long letter. In letter he suggested that I should avoid a,b,c ...Note that he suggested. I was 27 and he wanted me to give the choice not force it...that letter ensured that I say NO to alcohol when they offer a sip in grocery store and go to Sprite!So please move focus from centralized control to distributive one. Give control to where it belongs.-ShirazThese are my personal views and does not reflect the views of the followinga) Alumni of College of Signals- NUST, where I am an advisorb) American Muslims Health Professional, where I am a Board Memberc) General Electric Healthcare, where I am Global Program Manager
-Shiraz
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Imran khan <imrankhan1984@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
I've observed this discussion since its beginning and even after reading so many comments still my personal view is that there is NO need to have such system that is likely to become a source of enjoyment at the hands of Rehman Mailk, Rana Sana Ullah or some General 'looking for national interest'. Too much is at stake to put faith in these characters.The main question is for whom do we need such filtering system?If it is for adults then how come state try to control adults and put ban on their activities? Adults are not controlled to become good, but adults are controlled to become a plaything at the hands of those who wish greater control. That's the lesson of history not mine.And if we want such system for children then as parents (or potential parents) we should not delegate the responsibility of raising our children and keeping their morals high to the state. If there are children in your home who access internet then there are also plenty of software/operating systems for children which allow safe access to the web. May be we need to build our own operating system for kids. If anyone needs a research direction, this could be the one, ICT R&D can call proposals for this type of project as well. There has to be some 'Khalid Anam' in tech world. Remember 'a father is his daughters first love and his sons first hero'. Parenting is more than sending kids to schools, tuition centers and counting on state to do our job. Children look up to their parents and follow them so its much better to behave yourself when you become a parent. They say a man treats his wife the way he treats his mother... and I say a man treats his mother the way his father treats her! Feel free to disagree with me.In a country where a 7 year old can be convicted in the court of law and prosecuted, I think first of all we need filtering in our criminal justice system to keep our children away from jails since most kids love to fly kites which is a crime nowadays!
--
Best Regards,Imran KhanNetwork and Service Architecture Lab
Institute Telecom, Telecom SudParis,
9 rue Charles Fourier, 91011 Evry, France
On 8 March 2012 15:35, yasir mehmood <yasir.mehmood@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ehsan sahib,
I had no intention to reply to your email since it seems to address a different issue - surely different from my mourning and cries. However, since you "replied", perhaps accidently, to my email, therefore I would like to comment on a few things.
First: Automating hectic manual procedures is certainly one of the main objectives, and a plausible one of course, of investing into technology (or Computer Science ?) research. However, the DPI-based censoring system, to limit the access of an ordinary user to the WWW, is not so simple to put into your wish list because *who you are to tell me what is right for me (= the nation) and what's not ?*. It is inherently a dictatorial idea and no civilized society should tolerate it. If people have problems with their kids becoming perverts of the lowest category (ONLY after watching a lot of porn), maybe they should consider grooming them better and, I don't know if it works, they should try nourishing them with honest livelihood - both physically and spiritually.
We, as a nation, are already among the universal cartoons - I hope you'll give a second thought on this before standing among China, Iran, KSA and other repressive societies, by having such a system in place.
Second: May I request you/someone to please share some statistics that indicate what fraction of the youth is spoiled by pornography or anti-Pakistan content on the web. The WWW, in my opinion, is agnostic in all matters - all types of content (pro and anti Pakistan) is there. All you can do in order to counter the misleading efforts, is to deal them with some logic; truthfully and honestly (no matter if it hurts) - educate the youth more, give them incentives to study, facilitate them with scholarships and, lastly and very importantly, provide them enough recreation so that they also find some joy in other activities besides watching Jenna Jameson and Jesse Jane ;). This is certainly a slow process but it seems to me more effective - and I've told you a better way to use public money :P.
Isolating public/youth from different perspectives is likely to produce a nation of dumb statesmen and we must know that the only choice we have is to live on the planet Earth - can't shift to Mars, at least anytime soon!!
--
Thanks,
Yasir.
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Ehsan Elahi <ehsan.zahoor@yahoo.com> wrote:
I don't know why we people are habitually and shamefully try to discover conspiracies in every action of Govt. and agencies. Just tell me how many URLs are there which might have some anti govt. contents? 10, 100, 1000 ...? I'm sure not much enough that blocking them manually can cause any issue with ISPs, PTCL, or TWA. Govt. and other agencies can very easily block this much URLs manually. Than think what is the need to build a system to block 50 million URLs automatically. There must be some other reasons, which are already discussed much in detail, so no need to repeat.I think we should make a system not only to block just URLs but also have the capability of deep packet inspection which can also block some objectionable viewable contents. Because if anybody use youtube now a days, it starts displaying some nude videos as thumbnails besides other related videos. Why we can not see these conspiracies which are spoiling our youth silently. Can anybody tell me what is the source of income of youtube? Just think over it.All the bestEhsan Elahi"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for everything."Subject: Re: [pakgrid] RE: National URL Filtering and Blocking System
From: yasir mehmood <yasir.mehmood@gmail.com>
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 10:46 PM
Dear All (supporters of URL filtering),Instead of asking the moral authority of the people interested in enforcing an "Islamic filtering" system, I wonder why don't they invest people's money on the R&D of a "National Impotency Machine". Given that how many valuable systems/products/inventions we've given to the illicit, immoral and naked world, I guess the development of such a machine will be a matter of just few days. In fact, its very much likely that the brilliance of such a machine will outweigh the Universal Turing Machine (or even the Time Machine that doesn't exist) not only in scientific elegance but also in religious superiority. If the computational complexity of such a machine is exponential then I suggest your highnesses, the divine contractors (khudayi thaikaidaar) of making an absolutely "pure" and "moral state", to spend money on the R&D of an "Erection Blocking System". It sounds very much like URL blocking System ;) - no ? This system will ensure that even if a lucky bast**d manages to leave the country, he is still unable to find any charm in pornography or related things. So, naturally, the person won't dare doing anything that angers God even when he is all alone with 20 Mbps internet connection.Lastly, its just my guess, that people who are more than eager in the development of a URL filtering System, are the people who have been through either of the system or both - meaning, they are well-tested (barguzida) men of Allah and have already "overwhelmed" the mother Earth for more than half a century because of their very meaningful existence.(Ashiq sb.: kindly do not block my message - the ideas I've floated have the potential to revolutionise the world of "Muslim Ummah")--Thank and All the Best,Yasir.On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Haris Shamsi <haris.shamsi@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Wahaj Sb.Thanks a lot for the details. There is no doubt that the initiative is commendable to get such system developed from within - this will indeed provide an exposure the resources with in the Country and also will set a trend of giving the Preference to the Local expertise.IMHO there may be a need of a committee, having civil society representatives & Intellectuals to look after the censorship. We need to make sure that such blocking infrastructure should and can not be used for any social, religious and Political victimization.RegardsHaris ShamsiOn Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Wahaj us Siraj/MGMT <wahaj@dsl.net.pk> wrote:
Dear Fouad and Friends,The practice of manual URL blocking is already in place. This practice was adopted by the PTA and industry after facebook and youtube were completely blacked out in order to block blasphemous contents on the orders of superior courts. That created an fiasco in the country amid hue and cry from Internet users.Currently, PTA keeps ordering ISPs to block certain URLs containing blasphemous, sacrilegious and anti-Pakistan contents from time to time. These instructions come to PTA from an Inter-Ministerial Committee of Government. ISPs, being a licensee of PTA, are bound to follow these instructions. This blocking is implemented at Internet gateways with PTCL and TWA and also with ISPs.Superior courts have ordered PTA many times to block the pornographic web sites in Pakistan while deciding public interest petitions filed by Pakistani citizens and organizations from time to time. PTA wanted the ISPs to implement these orders but industry couldn't do so because there are millions of such sites over the Internet and manually it's not possible to block these sites. Few months back, PTA sent a list of around 170,000 pornographic sites to ISPs asking to block them at the gateway routers but the industry could not implement this impractical order. The list was then reduced to 1,000 sites which was implemented by the industry.For last year or so, PTA wanted ISPs and the Internet backbone service providers, i.e., PTCL and TWA to install an automated URL filtering and blocking system. The operators stance was that since they were operating on already thin margins, it wasn't possible for them to invest millions of dollars in implementing a new system. The operators were of the view that since they were already contributing huge amounts to USF, ICT R&D Fund and PTA license fees besides paying taxes, the project should be financed from one of these funds.Series of consultations were held at PTA with the ISPs and it was decided that such a system should be locally developed within Pakistan so that it won't have any foreign dependency. The system would be implemented at Internet gateways with PTCL and TWA and its operations and management would be with the operators. The consultations concluded that development of such system in Pakistan could also save huge amount as of the shelf systems of this capability are quite expensive.It was therefore decided that ICT R&D Fund would be requested to provide funding for this project. Local development of this system would also strengthen the indigenous capability and talent of the software/hardware industry.The ICT R&D Fund was requested to finance this activity and the proposal was approved by the Board of Directors of ICT R&D Fund. I happen to be one of the Board Members of Fund as representative of Broadband Operators.With this background, an RFP was prepared jointly by PTA and industry and advertised in the press. Leading universities, research organizations and private sector companies have shown interest to submit their proposals in response to the RFP. The proposals would be evaluated purely in merit and contract, in a transparent manner, would be awarded to a suitable organization have relevant expertise and capabilities to design and develop such a system.The RFP is backed by PTA and all broadband operators. ICT R&D Fund is only providing funding for this project as indigenous research and development in information and communication technologies (ICT) falls squarely within the domain of the Fund.The RFP was posted on Pakgrid couple of weeks back by the ICT R&D Fund itself.IMHO, there's nothing wrong with the concept. The system wouldn't compromise the performance of the Internet. It's not a new censorship as such. The money is not being spent on buying an imported system either. It's to provide an automated and state of the art system for something that's already being done manually and in rudimentary manner that also compromises the performance of Internet at times. Brief background of the RFP is also enclosed.Kind regards.Wahaj us SirajConvener, ISPAKBackgroundInternet access in Pakistan is mostly unrestricted and unfiltered. The Internet traffic is coming from two IP backbone providers, i.e., PTCL and TWA. The Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and backbone providers have currently deployed manual URL filtering and blocking mechanism in order to block the specific URLs containing anti Islamic and anti Pakistan content as notified by PTA from time to time.With the proliferation of Internet and broadband in the country, pornography has become a social menace. Free, unrestricted and easy availability of millions of web sites with pornographic content is playing havoc with country's social fabric, particularly harming young children.Many countries have deployed web filtering and blocking systems at the Internet backbones within their countries. ISPs and backbone providers have expressed their inability to block millions of pornographic web sites using current manual blocking systems. A national URL filtering and blocking system is therefore required to be deployed at national IP backbone of the country.ICT R&D Fund has decided to fund the indigenous development, deployment, operations and maintenance of such a system by Pakistani companies, vendors, academia and/or research organizations with proven track record.This system would be indigenously developed within Pakistan and deployed at IP backbones in major cities, i.e., Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad. Any other city/POP could be added in future. The system is proposed to be centrally managed by a small and efficient team stationed at POPs of backbone providers.---------------------From: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pakgrid@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shiraz Bashir
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 5:46 AM
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] A very happy Censorship and Block to 50 million URLs - National URL Filtering and Blocking SystemNational ICT R&D Fund management is on this group.We would like to hear what is the most pressing strategic reason to fund this project ?Let people speak..Let their peers judge them based on the strength of their arguments or politely tell them that yar koe aqal kee baat kar.Society settles down based on the interest of the group. Like no one in this group will share any explicit material!Do we really need Govt to tell us how to behave ?I hope that sanity will prevail and this funding will be canceled promptly.@ Fouad SahibThanks much for sharing this very important news.thanks-ShirazOn Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa@gmail.com> wrote:This may interest many of you to understand how FoE and an open
Internet is being captured in Pakistan. Feel free to be censored and
blocked soon.
http://ictrdf.org.pk/RFP-%20URL%20Filtering%20&%20Blocking.pdf
This is what happens when corruption and only monetary interests drive
business and industry. Imagine the companies that will be contributing
to this process, will they be working in the interest or against the
interest of the nation?
--
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad--
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