A. Unless your so called "safe server" has malicious software that sends all information out to our friends overseas. That has happened and currently going on.
B. Are you not dependent on others to provide you the hardware ? What makes you sure that even our Chinese friends don't have this "feature" in their HAUWEI equipment? When push comes to shove China will provide our information to Americans that will somehow finds its way to our enemies for strategic advantage.
Pakistan being a nuclear power must have its own communication system.
I write on this forum for Pakistan to stand on its own feet and even Pakgrid censors my e-mail. I hope this gets through.
Regards
AM
From: Zahid Jamil <zahid@jamilandjamil.com>
To: "pakgrid@yahoogroups.com" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Zahid Jamil <zahid@jamilandjamil.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: [pakgrid] Perspective Please - Re: PRISM Effect and personal privacy
Best regards,
Zahid Jamil
Barrister-at-law
Jamil & Jamil
Barristers-at-law
219-221 Central Hotel Annexe
Merewether Road, Karachi. Pakistan
Cell: +923008238230
Tel: +92 213 5680760 / 5685276 / 5655025
Fax: +92 213 5655026
Notice / Disclaimer
This message contains confidential information and its contents are being communicated only for the intended recipients . If you are not the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake and delete it from your system. The contents above may contain/are the intellectual property of Jamil & Jamil, Barristers-at-Law, and constitute privileged information protected by attorney client privilege. The reproduction, publication, use, amendment, modification of any kind whatsoever of any part or parts (including photocopying or storing it in any medium by electronic means whether or not transiently or incidentally or some other use of this communication) without prior written permission and consent of Jamil & Jamil is prohibited.
From: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pakgrid@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Abbas.Khan@abacus-global.com
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 2:11 PM
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] Perspective Please - Re: PRISM Effect and personal privacy
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 2:11 PM
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] Perspective Please - Re: PRISM Effect and personal privacy
With respect to the comment on hosting email services internally, I would propose that an on-premise email server is much safer from PRISM-like systems than an-cloud server. A majority of emails in an organization are internal emails from one worker to another. Typically, your most confidential information is exchanged only between internal organizational members. These messages never leave your in-house on-premise email server and so they are outside the net of PRISM or other surveillance systems.
From: Zahid Jamil <zahid@jamilandjamil.com>
To: "<pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "pakgrid@yahoogroups.com" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 07/13/2013 06:02 AM
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] Perspective Please - Re: PRISM Effect and personal privacy
Sent by: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
From: Zahid Jamil <zahid@jamilandjamil.com>
To: "<pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "pakgrid@yahoogroups.com" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 07/13/2013 06:02 AM
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] Perspective Please - Re: PRISM Effect and personal privacy
Sent by: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Just an FYI. The data that was available and 'snooped' (not a term I approve of) as someone in the chain below put it was not of content data but traffic/met data (like statistics and logs).
So its the equivalent of having a copy of your mobilink mobile phone itemised bill - not the identity of the person you're emailing or connecting to (that needs to be found through other tools) nor the content of the communication.
That's nothing compared to what Pakistan, China, Saudi, UAE and many others do. Currently all your emails (irrespective of any US 'snooping') are collected (let me repeat content data is collected) by Pakistani agencies under the provisions of the "PTA" Act or Telecom Reorg Act 1996. No warrant, Court, Judge or any oversight is involved. So even if Google or Apple are not letting the US Govt 'snoop' for traffic data (not content data) the Pakistani agencies have got both the traffic data and content data of all your emails, hotmails etc. So by hosting internally it makes no difference - all internet traffic and content in Pakistan, going out of Pakistan and coming into Pakistan is collected (recorded) under what is called here LI (Legal Intercept - not very legal but does have the 1996 act coverage). The same is true for all traffic for instance going in and out of UAE.
Best regards,
Zahid Jamil
Barrister-at-law
Jamil & Jamil
Barristers-at-law
219-221 Central Hotel Annexe
Merewether Road, Karachi. Pakistan
Cell: +923008238230
Tel: +92 21 35680760 / 35685276 / 35655025
Fax: +92 21 35655026
www.jamilandjamil.com
Notice / Disclaimer
This message contains confidential information and its contents are being communicated only for the intended recipients . If you are not the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this message by mistake and delete it from your system. The contents above may contain/are the intellectual property of Jamil & Jamil, Barristers-at-Law, and constitute privileged information protected by attorney client privilege. The reproduction, publication, use, amendment, modification of any kind whatsoever of any part or parts (including photocopying or storing it in any medium by electronic means whether or not transiently or incidentally or some other use of this communication) without prior written permission and consent of Jamil & Jamil is prohibited.
Sent from my iPad
On 11 Jul 2013, at 19:44, "BABAR" <babar@linuxurducbts.com> wrote:
Dear All,
What about those who are using Gmail/Yahoo/MSN at government level communications?
What about those universities in Pakistan who are using custom domain emails hosted with Gmail/Microsoft?
Regards,
Babar
--- In pakgrid@yahoogroups.com, ISHTIAQ AHMAD <ishtiaq.ahmad@...> wrote:
>
> Things are more complex then it looks for top.
> The UK is tapping fibre-optic cables that carry global communications (
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23004080)
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa
> and
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23045790
>
> See the cables map to see how the internet is connected at
> www.submarinecablemap.com
>
> P.S: GCHQ did not denied Guardian's claim
>
> Regards,
> Ishtiaq Ahmad
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 12:18 PM, ISHTIAQ AHMAD <ishtiaq.ahmad@...>wrote:
>
> > Dear Ayaz and other members,
> > It's not a question of how one have realized it. As my work is for Govt.
> > agency (not Pak), I have realized this long before (have a look on my
> > 2-years old posts at this forum), NSA version is a tip on iceberg, things
> > are much more complex as we know of.
> >
> > If one think statements made by these companies are based on only truth
> > and reality then you must reconsider your grounds. Closest example is News
> > Corp, remember UK phone hacking scandal? Lets tack Google and China's
> > battle, even secretary of state has to intervene. Definition of "the
> > Information" has been changed already, name, date of birth and credit card
> > number etc. are not the only information about an individual.
> >
> > Your proposition to build our own is an extension of the attitude "if you
> > don't like mine build you own", it's not only ironic but sad as well. Few
> > have taken this challenge and build their own (Korea, China, Israel, India)
> >
> > Moreover, when did last time this system was used to hunt a child abuser
> > or a serial rapists ??? and you drag in Pakistan for what reasons?? All
> > above happened in you're so called civilized world, which I'm also member
> > of.
> >
> > If you don't have any objection on privacy issue then its one particular
> > case which is called outlier in statistical terms but can't be applied to
> > everyone.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ishtiaq Ahmad
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Ayaz <ayaza75@...> wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear Ishtiaq sb,
> >>
> >> We have to work with the info that we have. Unless one of us has been
> >> targeted in one way or another, we are speaking here in terms of
> >> conjecture. The firms which always had access to your info along with
> >> several other intermediaries have given their version. As far as I
> >> understand, the NSA version etc gives much info than you seem to realize.
> >>
> >
> >> If some of us still want to be cautious, certainly we can do as we please
> >> and move to another service provider, or better yet, since this is a list
> >> of specialists and experts, possessing various higher qualifications and
> >> all that comes with that, we can make our own software/hardware and then we
> >> can have greater control over it.
> >>
> >> I would mention one thing though - the issues that you refer to as bla
> >> bla bla aka child mulustation, petephelia, serial rapists are of utmost
> >> importance in a civilized place and unlike in Pakistan, their prevention or
> >> reduction takes precedence over any individuals or personality of the
> >> president if there arises a conflict; the latter would have to go without
> >> question.
> >>
> >> Anyways, I have little problem with the type of information that can be
> >> provided on me me, which, I believe would be none. You can come to your own
> >> judgement depending on what you intend to use the internet for and come to
> >> your own decision.
> >>
> >> Ayaz
> >>
> >> On 18/06/2013 12:37 PM, ISHTIAQ AHMAD wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Its funny Ayaz, posting statements of Apple,Google, Facebook etc. about
> >> things like, we don't do this we don't do that, its our policy to do blah
> >> blah...
> >> Whom should we believe; a US president or Apple CEO, there is clear
> >> conflict of interest.
> >>
> >> Giving info to police is totally different thing then plug in something
> >> for recording every bit.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Ishtiaq Ahmad
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Ayaz <ayaza75@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Here's today's ZDnet:
> >>>
> >>> According to statement released by Apple "we do not provide any
> >>> government agency with direct access to our servers, and any government
> >>> agency requesting customer content must get a court order."
> >>>
> >>> Apple said the most common form of request came from police
> >>> investigating robberies and other crimes, searching for missing children,
> >>> trying to locate a patient with Alzheimer's disease, or hoping to prevent a
> >>> suicide.
> >>> Apple said its legal team conducted an evaluation of each request: "Only
> >>> if appropriate we retrieve and deliver the narrowest possible set of
> >>> information to the authorities. From time to time, when we see
> >>> inconsistencies or inaccuracies in a request, we will refuse to fulfil it."
> >>> The company also said there were certain categories of information it
> >>> did not provide to law enforcement or any other group because it chose not
> >>> to retain it.
> >>> Apple said iMessage and FaceTime conversations were protected by
> >>> end-to-end encryption so no-one but the sender and receiver could see or
> >>> read them. "Apple cannot decrypt that data. Similarly, we do not store data
> >>> related to customers' location, Map searches or Siri requests in any
> >>> identifiable form."
> >>> The numbers revealed by Apple are broadly in line with those revealed by
> >>> other tech companies. Last week Microsoft said that for the six months
> >>> ended December 31 2012, Microsoft received between 6,000 and 7,000 criminal
> >>> and national security warrants, subpoenas and orders affecting between
> >>> 31,000 and 32,000 consumer accounts from "US governmental entities".
> >>> Last week, Facebook general counsel Ted Ullyot said the social media
> >>> giant aggressively protected users' data when confronted with such
> >>> requests: "We frequently reject such requests outright, or require the
> >>> government to substantially scale down its requests, or simply give the
> >>> government much less data than it has requested. And we respond only as
> >>> required by law."
> >>> Facebook said that for the six months ending December 31 2012, the total
> >>> number of user-data requests Facebook received from any and all government
> >>> entities in the US (including local, state, and federal, and including
> >>> criminal and national security-related requests) was between 9,000 and
> >>> 10,000. It said the total number of Facebook user accounts for which data
> >>> was requested pursuant to the entirety of those 9,000-10,000 requests was
> >>> between 18,000 and 19,000 accounts.
> >>> But Twitter and Google have both argued that lumping in national
> >>> security requests with the more humdrum law enforcement requests was a step
> >>> back for users.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.zdnet.com/apple-imessage-and-facetime-are-encrypted-so-we-cant-hand-over-info-7000016898/?s_cid=e539&ttag=e539
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 17/06/2013 8:46 AM, Zeeshan Ali Shah wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dear Asif, Our PDC-HPC cloud is in Swedish border and gaining physical
> >>> access to it only permitted to SAPO. This is not Pakistan where one just
> >>> pass by access point showing his NSA card.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Zee
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Asif Mufti <anmufti@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Zeeshan, What makes you so sure? NSA likely plugged directly into
> >>>> your purported system.
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> *From:* Zeeshan Ali Shah <zashah@...>
> >>>> *To:* "pakgrid@yahoogroups.com" <pakgrid@yahoogroups.com>
> >>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 17, 2013 3:24 AM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [pakgrid] PRISM Effect and personal privacy
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We at PDC-HPC , KTH took it as an opportunity. Due to PRISM we see
> >>>> spike in Private in National cloud offerings.
> >>>>
> >>>> We have even rolled out a dedicated fund for Swedish national
> >>>> infrastructure for Cloud , in collaboration with other Nordic countries.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Zeeshan Ali Shah
> >>>> System Administrator - PDC HPC
> >>>> PhD researcher (IT security)
> >>>> Kungliga Tekniska Hogskolan
> >>>> +46 8 790 9115 <%2B46%208%20790%209115>
> >>>> http://www.pdc.kth.se/members/zashah
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Mushtaq Ahmad <
> >>>> Mushtaq_ahmad@...> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Billions of people around the globe use Internet and social media
> >>>> websites for free and frank opinion surveys, all sorts of discussions about
> >>>> many aspects of human life and other matters with the belief and conviction
> >>>> that these messages sent on the Wi Fi will not be revealed to anybody else
> >>>> except the recipients. Yes! it will effect the research project of cloud
> >>>> computing and many other vital research groups around who share vital
> >>>> information and data related to the research projects through the Cloud
> >>>> Services Providers over the Internet. This revelation is very dangerous for
> >>>> IT users across the world. The silent majority has to ponder about it, with
> >>>> maturity and serious consideration to find the ways and means to stop it.
> >>>>
> >>>> This shocking news by the Washington Post has shattered the confidence
> >>>> of general public around the world. There was also some recent discussion
> >>>> that the Internet and all the social media and otherweb applications were
> >>>> under the control of USA IT agencies and they can manipulate with them, the
> >>>> way they want and any time they want without any questions asked. There was
> >>>> also some discussions that the processing of all sorts of websites and all
> >>>> the matters related to Internet should be brought under the control of a
> >>>> neutral agency supervised by the United Nation. This body should be
> >>>> represented by the IT experts of all the members of the United Nation. The
> >>>> influence of USA secret agencies should be completely neutralized.
> >>>>
> >>>> The doctrine of checking and elimination of foreign terrorists outside
> >>>> USA also needs to be impartially studied for revision.
> >>>> One can ask the vital question: Has the USA secret agencies succeeded
> >>>> in elimination of local terrorism, reported almost on daily basis in the
> >>>> news media in USA, which has killed and killed more US citizens as compared
> >>>> to foreign terrorists since 9/11?
> >>>>
> >>>> All the best wishes
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------
> >>>> To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> From: ashiq.anjum@...
> >>>> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 12:17:36 +0000
> >>>> Subject: [pakgrid] PRISM Effect on Cloud Computing
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> The Washington Post recently reported on a secret government program
> >>>> to snoop Internet data, named PRISM. How will this revelation impact the
> >>>> cloud computing world and could it put a damper on cloud adoption?
> >>>>
> >>>> Last week, the Obama administration found itself embroiled in
> >>>> another pair of scandals. First, on Wednesday, The Guardian reported that
> >>>> the NSA has been collecting the call records of millions of Verizon
> >>>> customers (later reports say that AT&T and Sprint Nextel are also
> >>>> involved). On Friday, The Washington Post upped the ante and reported that
> >>>> “the National Security Agency and the FBI are tapping directly into the
> >>>> central servers of nine leading U.S. Internet companies, extracting audio
> >>>> and video chats, photographs, e-mails, documents, and connection logs that
> >>>> enable analysts to track foreign targets.†The result of these revelations
> >>>> has been a deep discussion throughout the traditional media, blogosphere,
> >>>> and other social media about the desired limits of government power to
> >>>> intercept and analyze private communications. Whatever your opinion on the
> >>>> politics and civil liberties issues, one thing is for sure â€" the
> >>>> revelations about the PRISM program are going to change the way people look
> >>>> at public clouds.
> >>>>
> >>>> For further details, please read the article:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> http://leverhawk.com/will-prism-have-a-chilling-effect-on-cloud-computing-adoption-20130609297?goback=%2Egde_45151_member_248245337
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards
> >>>> Ashiq Anjum
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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