To Rabia's question, friends in NADRA told me that an electronic web-based voting system will be set up and will be open to the public so that the "public" democratically decides which URL's to block.
Salaams - I hope I didn't miss out on this but I am quite certainly I only saw one post on this thread from Barrister Zahid Jamil addressing it, hence I thought I'd send out another ping to the same effect.
While it is true that URL filtering and blocking technologies have been around for quite a while, the issue is two things:Also
- What guidelines are sites supposed to be blocked and who has the right to issue the order to block a URL? Which stakeholders are on the committee and what framework are/will they be following to ensure that the 'civil rights' are not infringed upon?
- What happens to an IP/User that attempts to access a URL that has been blocked? Lets take a scenario where I am researching material for an article on Yellow Journalism in Pakistan and inadvertently visit the URLs of a collection of websites that are blocked. The IP/User will be logged somewhere and someone may take notice of the action. What is the course of action from the PTA against the IP/User?
My apologies again in case these points have been raised in the thread previously.
Rabia Garib (رابعہ غریب)
Editor-in-Chief,
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On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Shiraz Bashir <shirazbashir@gmail.com> wrote:[Attachment(s) from Shiraz Bashir included below]It may be useful for the list to read attached and understand Freedom of Speech (FoS) from US perspective and then see how we can minimize the social problems caused by rated and sacrilegious material.Before we do that, lets see the data to support that these are harming our moral fabric. If there is data, lets examine it by peer review and subject it to intellectual scrutiny.Do watch a wonderful documentary:Shouting Fire- Stories from the Edge of Free SpeechRest of the document contains few key cases on FoS.thanks-Shiraz
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Amir Wain <awain@i2cinc.com> wrote:URL filtering will not serve the purpose of those who find a purpose in it. People will find a way to get to the content they want.
What I am concerned about is having another point of failure added in an already unreliable infrastructure. We have plenty of internet outages as is. ALL vendors included. Adding another point of failure or a gate that slows down traffic will hurt people trying to do serious business. Please do think about the impact on those who are trying to run a business.
Amir
On 3/10/2012 5:02 AM, Wahaj us Siraj/MGMT wrote:Dear Amin and Yasir,
I'm sorry if I've heart yours or anyone else feelings.
Kind regards….Wahaj
From: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pakgrid@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amin Ansari
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 9:57 AM
To: pakgrid@ yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [pakgrid] RE: National URL Filtering and Blocking System
Dear Wahaj,
Let me say from the outset. I do not know Yasir. Never met him.
I found Yasir's note using humor to make a point about censorship. I am sure you have seen programs that use political satire and sarcasm in a humorous way to make a point. "Hum Sab Umeed Say Hein" will be an example in Pakistan. Saturday Night Live, Jay Leno's The Tonight Show or stand up act of many stand-up comedians and comediennes will be another example. We all must be careful in muzzling dissent in the garb of attacking someone personally. I found your note to be very personal in nature to Yasir.
Yasir has only raised the danger of all-knowing, all-controlling nature of the government. Filtering of URL's is nothing but an excuse for the government to control dissent and opposite point of view. Teaching good morals is the job of us parents. Not the job of the government. We can not outsource that job to them.
Amin
From: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pakgrid@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wahaj us Siraj/MGMT
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:02 PM
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [pakgrid] RE: National URL Filtering and Blocking System
Dear Mr. Yasir,
We appreciate your vocabulary.
IMHO, let's keep ourselves to the dialogue and should not get into ridicules and sarcasm.
It's said that words used by a person reflect the character of that person.
Kind regards….Wahaj
From: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pakgrid@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of yasir mehmood
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:46 PM
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] RE: National URL Filtering and Blocking System
Dear All (supporters of URL filtering),
Instead of asking the moral authority of the people interested in enforcing an "Islamic filtering" system, I wonder why don't they invest people's money on the R&D of a "National Impotency Machine". Given that how many valuable systems/products/inventions we've given to the illicit, immoral and naked world, I guess the development of such a machine will be a matter of just few days. In fact, its very much likely that the brilliance of such a machine will outweigh the Universal Turing Machine (or even the Time Machine that doesn't exist) not only in scientific elegance but also in religious superiority. If the computational complexity of such a machine is exponential then I suggest your highnesses, the divine contractors (khudayi thaikaidaar) of making an absolutely "pure" and "moral state", to spend money on the R&D of an "Erection Blocking System". It sounds very much like URL blocking System ;) - no ? This system will ensure that even if a lucky bast**d manages to leave the country, he is still unable to find any charm in pornography or related things. So, naturally, the person won't dare doing anything that angers God even when he is all alone with 20 Mbps internet connection.
< o>
Lastly, its just my guess, that people who are more than eager in the development of a URL filtering System, are the people who have been through either of the system or both - meaning, they are well-tested (barguzida) men of Allah and have already "overwhelmed" the mother Earth for more than half a century because of their very meaningful existence.
(Ashiq sb.: kindly do not block my message - the ideas I've floated have the potential to revolutionise the world of "Muslim Ummah")
--
Thank and All the Best,
Yasir.
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Haris Shamsi <haris.shamsi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Wahaj Sb.
Thanks a lot for the details. There is no doubt that the initiative is commendable to get such system developed from within - this will indeed provide an exposure the resources with in the Country and also will set a trend of giving the Preference to the Local expertise.
IMHO there may be a need of a committee, having civil society representatives & Intellectuals to look after the censorship. We need to make sure that such blocking infrastructure should and can not be used for any social, religious and Political victimization.
Regards
Haris Shamsi
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Wahaj us Siraj/MGMT <wahaj@dsl.net.pk> wrote:
Dear Fouad and Friends,
The practice of manual URL blocking is already in place. This practice was adopted by the PTA and industry after facebook and youtube were completely blacked out in order to block blasphemous contents on the orders of superior courts. That created an fiasco in the country amid hue and cry from Internet users.
Currently, PTA keeps ordering ISPs to block certain URLs containing blasphemous, sacrilegious and anti-Pakistan contents from time to time. These instructions come to PTA from an Inter-Ministerial Committee of Government. ISPs, being a licensee of PTA, are bound to follow these instructions. This blocking is implemented at Internet gateways with PTCL and TWA and also with ISPs.
Superior courts have ordered PTA many times to block the pornographic web sites in Pakistan while deciding public interest petitions filed by Pakistani citizens and organizations from time to time. PTA wanted the ISPs to implement these orders but industry couldn't do so because there are mi llions of such sites over the Internet and manually it's not possible to block these sites. Few months back, PTA sent a list of around 170,000 pornographic sites to ISPs asking to block them at the gateway routers but the industry could not implement this impractical order. The list was then reduced to 1,000 sites which was implemented by the industry.
For last year or so, PTA wanted ISPs and the Internet backbone service providers, i.e., PTCL and TWA to install an automated URL filtering and blocking system. The operators stance was that since they were operating on already thin margins, it wasn't possible for them to invest millions of dollars in implementing a new system. The operators were of the view that since they were already contributing huge amounts to USF, ICT R&D Fund and PT A license fees besides paying taxes, the project should be financed from one of these funds.
Series of consultations were held at PTA with the ISPs and it was decided that such a system should be locally developed within Pakistan so that it won't have any foreign dependency. The system would be implemented at Internet gateways with PTCL and TWA and its operations and management would be with the operators. The consultations concluded that development of such system in Pakistan could also save huge amount as of the shelf systems of this capability are quite expensive.
It was therefore decided that ICT R&D Fund would be re quested to provide funding for this project. Local development of this system would also strengthen the indigenous capability and talent of the software/hardware industry.
The ICT R&D Fund was requested to finance this activity and the proposal was approved by the Board of Directors of ICT R&D Fund. I happen to be one of the Board Members of Fund as representative of Broadband Operators.
With this background, an RFP was prepared jointly by PTA and industry and advertised in the press. Leading universities, research organizations and private sector companies have shown interest to submit their proposals in response t o the RFP. The proposals would be evaluated purely in merit and contract, in a transparent manner, would be awarded to a suitable organization have relevant expertise and capabilities to design and develop such a system.
The RFP is backed by PTA and all broadband operators. ICT R&D Fund is only providing funding for this project as indigenous research and development in information and communication technologies (ICT) falls squarely within the domain of the Fund.
The RFP was posted on Pakgrid couple of weeks back by the ICT R&D Fund itself.
IMHO, there's nothing wrong with the concept. The system wouldn't compromise the performance of the Internet. It's not a new censorship as such. The money is not being spent on buying an imported system either. It's to provide an automated and state of the art system for something that's already being done manually and in rudimentary manner that also compromises the performance of Internet at times. Brief background of the RFP is also enclosed.
Kind regards.
Wahaj us Siraj
Convener, ISPAK
Background
Internet access in Pakistan is mostly unrestricted and unfiltered. The Internet traffic is coming from two IP backbone providers, i.e., PTCL and TWA. The Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and backbone providers have currently deployed manual URL filtering and blocking mechanism in order to block the specific URLs containing anti Islamic and anti Pakistan content as notified by PTA from time to time.
With the proliferation of Internet and broadband in the country, pornography has become a social menace. Free, unrestricted and easy availability of millions of web sites with pornographic content is playing havoc with country's social fabric, particularly harming young children.
Many countries have deployed web filtering and blocking systems at the Internet backbones within their countries. ISPs and backbone providers have expressed their inability to block millions of pornographic web sites using current manual blocking systems. A national URL filtering and blocking system is therefore required to be deployed at national IP backbone of the country.
ICT R&D Fund has decided to fund the indigenous development, deployment, operations and maintenance of such a system by Pakistani companies, vendors, academia and/or research organizations with proven track record.
This system would be indigenously developed within Pakistan and deployed at IP backbones in major cities, i.e., Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad. Any other city/POP could be added in future. The system is proposed to be centrally managed by a small and efficient team stationed at POPs of backbone providers.
---------------------
From: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pakgrid@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Shiraz Bashir
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 5:46 AM
To: pakgrid@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pakgrid] A very happy Censorship and Block to 50 million URLs - National URL Filtering and Blocking System
National ICT R&D Fund management is on this group.
We would like to hear what is the most pressing strategic reason to fund this project ?
Let people speak..
&nbs p;
Let their peers judge them based on the strength of their arguments or politely tell them that yar koe aqal kee baat kar.
Society settles down based on the interest of the group. Like no one in this group will share any explicit material!
Do we really need Govt to tell us how to behave ?
I hope that sanity will prevail and this funding will be canceled promptly.
@ Fouad Sahib
Thanks much for sharing this very important news.
thanks
-Shiraz
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:03 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa@gmail.com> wrote:
This may interest many of you to understand how FoE and an open
Internet is being captured in Pakistan. Feel free to be censored and
blocked soon.
http://ictrdf.org.pk/RFP-%20URL%20Filtering%20&%20Blocking.pdf
This is what happens when corruption and only monetary interests drive
business and industry. Imagine the companies that will be contributing
to this process, will they be working in the interest or against the
interest of the nation?
--
Regards.
--------------------------
Fouad
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